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March 31, 2008

FirstCity Financial Corporation Q4 2007 Earnings Call Transcript

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FirstCity Financial Corporation (FCFC)

Q4 2007 Earnings Call

March 17, 2008, 10:00 am ET


James T. Sartain – President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

Richard J. Vander Woude – Senior Vice President, General Counsel, Secretary

J. Bryan Baker – Chief Financial Officer, Senior Vice President

Jim W. Moore – Chief Operating Officer, Executive Vice President, Treasurer


Barry McCarver – Stevens Inc.


Welcome to the fourth quarter 2007 FirstCity financial earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) I would like to turn the presentation over to our host for today’s call, Mr. James Sartain, President and CEO of the FirstCity Financial Corporation.

James T. Sartain

Welcome to our fourth quarter earnings release and year-end 2007 release. With me today, I have got our very own new Jim Moore, our new Chief Operating Officer who we announced in couple of months ago who joined us on February 1. We were excited that Jim’s with us. He is joining us on the call today.

We certainly look forward to Jim’s involvement in the company in the areas of compliance, legal and operations systems and being obviously comes from a background of having been here many years before joining as CFO of our auto finance company that we started in ’97 and stayed there until just recently in late 2007. So Jim has joined us and we are thrilled to death to have Jim.

Also, joining me is Bryan Baker, our Chief Financial Officer; Rick Vander Woude, our General Counsel; Jim Holmes, our Managing Director of our US platform portfolio acquisitions as well as Suzy Taylor, our Investor Relations Officer. At this time, I would like to call on Rick Vander Woude to read our forward-looking statement.

Richard J. Vander Woude

This conference call may include comments that are not historical facts such as projections or revenues, income or loss, future economic performance, plans or objectives of management for future operations or other forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

The forward-looking statements are depended upon a number of uncertainties which can cause the actual results to different materially from those implied, projected or predicted in the forward-looking statement.

But any such forward-looking statement includes this statement of the assumptions underlying such forward-looking statement, company cautions that will such assumptions are believed to be reasonable and are making good faith assumes facts almost always very from actual results and the difference is between the assume facts and actual results can be immaterial depending upon the circumstances.

Additional information concerning factors that cause the actual results to materially differ from the forward-looking statements are contained in the press release issued earlier this morning and the company’s license Form 10-K and Form 10-Q and other factors discussed in the company’s filings for Security and Exchange Commission.

James T. Sartain

Obviously, we’re very disappointed in the results of our fourth quarter, realizing that we had a loss for the quarter of $1.4 million or $0.12 per share. We knew for year that we were going to be off, obviously, which did the investigation calls that we had during the year of $2.2 million. And we did anticipate that we would have some reserves to specific assets. Some of these reserves relate to the pushing out of cash flows. Some of them relate to just pure devaluations and some of the commercial real state assets on our books.

We have a very little exposure to residential. We were talk about that after while but the $6.4 million in reserves that we had during the year and $3.2 million in the fourth quarter was more than anticipated. But looking at our cash flows as we do our regular basis and as we do every month, we felt it was incumbent upon us to push some cash flows on some assets as well as take some write-downs on some assets that we had. Particularly as it related to some Midwest assets kind of the worst felt assets that we had.

But certainly the devaluation in the real state market you see a lot about that in the residential area but its trickle down certainly does affect commercial. I think moreover, the fact is the liquidity on the market where we have exit strategies on assets where people are looking to get refinancing to take us out of certain deals that we are in.

And we have an agreement with him and a discounted payoff or some kind of structure where they are not able to obtain financing to do that. We may have extend financing and that pushes our cash flows and in many instances and sometimes creates these reserves for impairments against cash flows if you will. So, I think the liquidities affect to this. I know that’s what has had a big effect and this created some of the reserves that we took.

We invested $150 million for the year not near what we invested a year before. We will talk more about that later on in the conference call. Our liquidity remains very strong. We have the capacity to fund approximately $150 million more and we can leverage most to that $150 million with other transactions.

Liquidity is king in this market. Our liquidity is good, we’ve got the ability to take advantage of some opportunities we’re seeing in the market. And we are really excited about what’s going on in the market and the market is coming to us. When you read about it everyday, and just this weekend, obviously you are hearing reports of sales of major investment banks because of their issues.

We are excited to think about the fallout out of structures like this and the things that we can do with the liquidity we have and the franchise we have. But before we go on, and we will come back to some of this in discussion. I would like to ask Bryan Baker to come in and give the financial report. Then we will come back and talk about portfolio acquisition.

J. Bryan Baker

If you could just focus on the first page of the press release, we will start there and I will just walk you through to some of the numbers that are contained throughout the press release.

The table there in the middle of the page basically shows you that we loss $1.360 million for the quarter compared to the $5.50 million last year. Obviously, the biggest drop out of the portfolio asset acquisition and resolution for the quarter and the year was provisions that we recorded $3.2 million for the quarter. So you see that if you add those back with our net revenues would be higher for the quarter and $6.4 for the year.

So the same analysis would be applicable is that our revenues out of that business line, our core revenues excluding provisions would be higher than prior year. Corporate overhead is higher in the quarter than the year. The quarter is pretty much spread throughout personal cost, other expenses, taxes, and all primarily related to growth as a business and additional compliance.

In the year we had the $2.2 million investigation expenses and then we had increased taxes of $528,000. Other income was down by $426,000 comparable to prior year. Other expenses were up to $658,000. So, about $4 million net increase in overhead for the year spread through several areas of the company.

If you took a step back and you said okay for the year we made $2.185 million and $0.19 compared to $9.8 million last year. We take three basic components; you take the investigation expense of $2.2 million, impairments of $6.4 million. And then if you deduct FX gains in this year and last year the comparable core net income for 2007 would be roughly $9.6 million compared to $9.5 million in 2006.

So, while we are showing not quite the level of acquisitions in ’07 as we did in ’06, our revenues have increased and our core net income has stayed basically flat excluding those items. So, we feel like we although not unaffected by the market, we have weathered a pretty good storm we believe in 2007 through all the difficulties that we faced. We feel like we are poised to move ahead and take advantage of some of the market activity.

Although that we do have provisions, those provisions were spread in the US, Latin America, in Europe, for the year we had $2.061 million which shows up on the income statement of Page 5 in the press release. That’s the wholly-owned portfolio provisions in the US and we had $1.5 million in Latin America partnerships which reduces our equity earnings of subs $3.4 million in US partnerships in $0.4 million in Europe partnerships.

The other item that’s significant, a couple of items that I want to talk about under the expense line is the interest expense, $18 million for the year compared $8.3. Our average debt for the year is $212 million compared to a $100 million in ’06 and our interest gross was slightly higher for the year at 8.5% compared to 8.3%. You have really seen the carryover the last two years acquisitions showing up in the average debt balance and the higher interest expense.

Salaries and benefits were up year-to-year, quarter-to-quarter basically because of our start-up businesses and American Business Lending in Crestone. Although those businesses basically were breakeven to the bottom line on the standalone basis, they did have an affect of increasing certain revenue and expense line items but basically we are at breakeven for the company for the year.

The last thing I would like to talk about is the schedule of unrealized gross profit which we provided for the first time last quarter. We put it in there again this year and we continue to see that we have got $98 million of unrealized gross profit in our share of the portfolios that we are invested in. This were not including the direct loans or SBA loans and that [inaudible] basically our core portfolios that we hold in our partnerships and wholly owned in the different regions.

It did come down a little bit from year-end last year and the end of the third quarter. Basically, we did not buy as much in ’07 as we did in 2006. So, we did have some shrinkage in our values as result of which shows up in impairments although it was not a dollar-for-dollar decrease on the P&L. Though we feel like its still a very strong number and it shows that we are adding value and that in the future we will try to provide some information related to the timing of those expected cash flows.

With that I am going to turn it back through to Jim.

Jim W. Moore

Let’s turn to the portfolio acquisition and resolution business, as stated in the press release we invested $19.4 million in the quarter versus $87 million for the fourth quarter of 2006, down significantly from the previous year. Can I say that that was intentional? No. Can I say that we are being more selective? Yes. Are we being more cautious? Yes.

We have raised our pricing, we have raise our margins, we have lowered our expected buys in the real state market us we look at the new BPO values or broker cross opinion values and appraisal values. We have used the same discipline but we have changed our strategies because we believe this is the time that we can start, the times are coming to us and we do not have to buy at this point. The seller expectations have not come down commensurate it with what our expectations are to buy.

I will say that in the fourth quarter we still bid a lot of portfolios. We bit seven different portfolios that we were the high bidder on, but the seller did not sell. And why it did not sell, they didn't have the reserves to sell them. What are you reading in the market today? Banks, what are they doing, they are continuing to reserve even into the first quarter and probably go into the second or maybe even further, who knows?

But they did not have the reserves to sell the assets. So, we passed on the buy rather than meeting the seller expectations which we generally do not do. We have our price that we stay with. Again, the discipline is still here and we will continue to maintain it although we have changed our processing significantly when we are looking at what was going on in market.

Also, what this may mean to us and probably does is that in our seven different sales that we were the high bidder on that did not sell because it did not have the provisions or the reserves to sell it. It may mean there is less competition in the market. Obviously liquidity has been a big issue in the market and us with liquidity versus some of our competitors that maybe struggling in some other areas of their company.

For us to be high bidder on seven different sales in the quarterly period is kind of a phenomena. That hasn’t happened in years but it came with our pricing structure, again it did not buy. But it is sending us a message I believe that the good times for us are to come.

Year-to-date invested $148 almost $149 million versus over $172 million last year. Again, the same scenario mostly affected by what happen in the fourth quarter. Fourth quarter is generally our largest quarter for acquisitions. It was in ’06, it was year before as I recall. It just wasn’t there in 2007 and primarily due to what I mentioned earlier the discipline and the changing in our pricing structure.

As I said all along, you don’t make money paying too much for these assets. We had some impairments on some assets that we purchased, probably not too surprising to anybody given what the real estate climate is today. And given where the liquidity climate is as far as people being able to obtain financing to take us out of settlements that we might made with the debtor.

We remain optimistic. Our pipeline today is $1.8 billion dollars made up of about $400 million in the US, about $200 million in Europe, and $1.2 billion in Latin America. In the US and in Europe, the ones that we have on our list the $400 and $200 respectively is stuff that we are looking at. The $1.2 billion in Latin America is stuff that is on our list. We may or may not look at and if we do look at it, it will be certainly on a joint venture with us taking minor pieces of those transactions along with other investors.

There are other investors in joint venture partners out there to do this. Lately we just closed one here recently just in the last month with a major world financial partner, major world player. There is money for these transactions along side of liquidity that we can provide the deal too. We have a good pipeline today, but guess what, its going to get larger.

Looking at the credit crunch, liquidity crunch, it’s just a matter time before there’s going to be numerous opportunities to be acquired. According to the Wall Street Journal this morning, we don’t have to swing at every ball today, which just want swing at the fat ones. That’s really what we’re trying to say, we’re going to be very selective and enterprising.

There is just going to be so many opportunities that we believe starting on about this third, fourth quarter this year when sellers really had to start getting rid of these assets. The FDIC made an announcement in the last three or four weeks that it believed that it was tightening up because it believed that it would be closing numerous banks over the next two years, commercial banks.

That being said, that’s a lot of opportunities for us as the FDIC typically auctions off those assets. That’s where we cut our teeth back in late 80′s and early 90′s, the bank government failures. We see that as opportunities it’s going to get larger as we say.

As I stated many times, these are the times we looked for. It’s probably too early right now, it’s certainly too early to predict what’s going to happen. But we believe third and fourth quarters, as we see it in the market and as we talk to sellers and banks, and not just banks. Others street lenders and people that have been in the lending business, we see that we believe the business is coming our coming way.

We believe that the tidal wave is coming and we certainly see it. We are already seeing transactions, although right now the seller’s mindset is maybe try hold on and try to weather the storm. But I believe that liquidity concerns are getting too numerous for a number of these top sellers.

We bought a pipeline that includes no residential. We have not historically been a residential buyer in the US although we have done quite a bit of it over in Mexico, some in South America, and some in Europe. But it does not include residential in the US. As I stated in our last conference call back in November, it seems like many months ago now. We were looking for a partnership or JV, with residential expertise buying and managing this type of product.

We believed that would be a great add to our “buy low, sell hot theory�. Obviously, some of those partners and some of that expertise over the last year has had some big blow ups and is the cause of the downfall of some major enterprises around the US today. But we are still working with numerous various potential residential partners to put together a residential buying program.

Obviously, we don’t go buy unless we have the capability and ability to manage that product. But it’s certainly an added product using our liquidity to enforce, and to be able to acquire the product. Our liquidity along with some joint venture partners liquidity to buy, and then managing that risk once we buy.

What was the quote this morning in Reuters, “You don’t want to catch a falling knife, you don’t want to catch a falling chain saw. You will be cutting off all your limbs.â€� Anyway don’t want catch a falling knife, we don’t know where the bottom is yet. I don’t think anybody does. But again the bottom will happen once buyers such as us and other value buyers start putting buying. And the seller begins to sell and create liquidity, certainly, in the market to take advantage of these situations.

We are still trying to find the bottom as we said, I’m not sure we are there, but we are prepared to move once we get to the bottom. And we believe that we will see some bottoming out late this year for third and fourth quarter.

We also seeing even in the residential more and more commercial opportunities everyday and what I have call the “trickle down effect�, the residential affects many, many commercial enterprises. From people to supply to the home building industry to the people that supply to the commercial business, it affects the commercial enterprise.

We are seeing the downturn also in the real estate value and obviously we reflected some of there in our fourth quarter. But we remain very excited about the portfolio acquisition business these are the times we look for. We are moving forward, we are going to use a lot of discipline.

I am not going to sit here and tell you that we are going to have huge acquisitions in the first and second quarter. I don’t know when the huge acquisition are going to come but they are going to come and thy are going to be with much, much higher margins. And I have remained very, very excited about the opportunities I’m seeing.

Let me talk about liquidity a moment, we did obtained a $125 million in additional credit facility from the Bank of Scotland and our affiliates and subsidiaries that's called BoS(USA). That relationship remains very strong, it’s a relationship we’ve had since mid 90s.

We are looking in other venues for liquidity to do other type transaction, to do more transaction, we are looking at structured finance situations. JV’s with partners accepted, much like we historically have done with the Cargill Company possibly, where we have partnership relationship in the WAMCO partnership that we have had actually since 1992. Also partnership relationships like we have had with the AIG Group and people like that.

So we have continue look for additional liquidity to couple with ours to be able to grow our business to acquire a more critical mass of this product, because we believe that we can take advantage of what we’ll say are huge discounts in the market. With our liquidity fine and we will continue to work with those partners as well as investing on our balance sheet as well.

Over to the stock purchase plan, during the quarter we have raised our stock purchase plan from one million shares to a 1.5 million shares. Today we have acquired 845,000 shares under that program. We are somewhat selective but if the pricing we are seeing does stop, we just believe it as a excellent buy today. Obviously that coupled with the idea that, we need liquidity to grow our business so we have run a balance.

But at today’s prices, it certainly is a good buy, so we continue to buy. Although we are very limited in what we can buy on a day-to-day basis and for the last couple of weeks we have been in a quiet period and have not been able to buy given where the price is. But we have acquired 264,530 shares this year alone and we will continue to buy on select basis as we look at the market.

We think it’s a good program, we think it brings good value to the remaining shareholders and the non-selling shareholders. I for one as a shareholder believe it’s helpful to the value that I have in the company to. We will continue that program, we have the liquidity to do that and we still have liquidity to grow on our business.

So with that I will conclude our prepared remarks and open it up for Q&A.

Question-and-Answer Session


(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of Barry McCarver – Stevens Inc..

Barry McCarver – Stevens Inc.

Going back to the purchases you were talking about the seven sales and you were the highest bidder on, I think your comment was that the reserves that some of those banks had just did not allow them to go ahead with the price you were offering. Can you infer in anything by the difference of what they were expecting and what you were offering that would indicate that they are getting closer to being ready to turn loose of those portfolios.

James T. Sartain

But I would say, we’re probably off 10% to 15% of what they’re expecting which is a sizeable amount.

Barry McCarver – Stevens Inc.

I’m wondering what that may have been like last quarter, a couple of quarters ago, if you have looked at it that way.

James T. Sartain

But we continue to buy, but we had some “no sales� all through the year. You see continued deterioration in the portfolios of these banks primarily because of the value of real estate, Barry. And we try to form a hard line, a hard downside on these assets with real estate values not always but most always, but we were probably 10% to 15% off of expectations at the minimum, net.

Some of that comes when we deal we might have been pricing to 15% cash-on-cash year ago, we are pricing to a 17% today too. There’s more risk out there so if the price is 17% and we missed, it may get to a 15%. Sometimes if we price at 17 and we hit a home run we do better than that obviously. But I’m saying across the board, Jim would you agree, 10% to 15% probably across the board we were off below there expectations. I’m going to say that the seller was off because we were right.

Barry McCarver – Stevens Inc.

Well 10% to 15% sounds like a pretty dramatic difference.

Jim W. Moore

It is but looking at it from our situation, if we are going to take that asset on and we have got to manage it to the end and with the higher cost of funds. We’re just not going to take that risk, given the fall in the market that we are seeing and we’re just going to invest our liquidity more wisely. We believe we invest our liquidity wisely, and we’re just going to continue to do that very wisely

Barry McCarver – Stevens Inc.

Now, I’m trying to get my hands around when you’re talking about, hoping that you see more potential for purchasing in 3Q, 4Q kind of what is leading into that.

James T. Sartain

I don’t think it is not all banks, but banks are big seller to us, I just don’t think they looked., Certainly they have a process they go through every quarter and they look at values but some of these banks today or some of these sellers in capital is king and it is called capital preservation.

And they say if we can get appraisal on this asset at X, and I have to reserve it down to that X or whatever., But a buyer is going to come in and buy that assets, maybe pay in Y which is a substantial discount from that, they say I can keep capital in the bank, by not selling.

And some of these banks that are becoming very capital thin will take that position and say that capital preservation is king to us right now. Keep our doors open.

Barry McCarver – Stevens Inc.

On the provision in the quarter, you talked about a couple of reasons for the provisioning including asset write-downs. Can you give us a little more detail on the two or three biggest drivers in that? And Jim, the details when you re-price an asset or you have a third party to do that, how do you determine the value, which can be really tricky in the market right now.

James T. Sartain

Well, certainly we have just come through an audit that has been more penetrating than any other I’ve ever seen as it relates to asset valuation. We have for years and over the last 20 years we’ve in business as a developer a very substantial network of brokers, brokers with price opinions and then they give just hard-core opinions as to what I can go see this property for in the next 90 days even where the market is.

Again we go through that process on a regular basis, that’s something that we have had in place for years. We do go through a re-underwriting of our major assets on a continual basis. They get a tremendous amount of scrutiny from our portfolio manager Jim Holmes’ group, as well as from our internal audit and our external audit group.

As I see more penetration than I ever saw in our life, which is good it makes us look at ourselves. That being said, the auditors don’t run the business, management does. So we look at ourselves on a very cautious basis as to where this market’s going and try to take as cautious approach to the cash flows as we can to try to be as realistic, Some of it is, again, pushing cash flow some of it is pure devaluation.

J. Bryan Baker

Barry, I just want to point out that, these provisions were something that management identified. These are not anything identified by our audit firm and it’s an ongoing process that occurs every month where Jim Holmes and his people look at the cash flows, and evaluate them.

There were two or three significant assets that grew probably half of this number in the quarter, so when you have those types of deals bubble up and I think that they have been on the books for quite a couple of years. They are a little bit older assets. So it would be natural for us to have some market decline given what is going out there.

It’s just an ongoing process and it’s something we do for living. We value assets every day. It’s a little different from a bank where you really don’t have the internal resources and the quality for the type of staff that really has experience in valuing these assets as we do. So although we get BPOs we don’t totally rely on BPOs, we have lot of other tools and our own experience to be able to help analyze those numbers.

James T. Sartain

I in no way was implying that that our audit firm was driving those numbers by any stretch of the imagination. We know pretty well where our values are and again in past the portfolios with these assets came out of, we may do very well on those portfolios.

But on specific assets within that portfolios we have to take impairment today, where the remaining portfolio may yield us 15%. But we have taken impairments today, we get the accrual on those remaining portfolio over its remaining life.

So it's little bit of a timing issue in some respects too as it relates to exit strategies. If we were just looking at it as a portfolio buy and sell, we may or may not even have an impairment overall the life portfolio. But today we have to break down the portfolio into specific pools as it relates to the various kinds of assets in the pool. So sometime it’s a timing difference there too Barry.

Barry McCarver – Stevens Inc.

Given the general decline in credit quality for the industry right now and particularly decline in property values in lot of markets can we expect provisioning like this to kind of tick along at these levels for sometime. Is that going to be a general trend?

J. Bryan Baker

I don’t know that you can say that, it’s going to be a quarter-by-quarter analysis. These are not realized losses these are reserves and I don’t know that we can predict that today by any stretch of imagination.

Jim W. Moore

But we look at them constantly Berry. Hopefully we bought these assets properly. I guess at the end of the day when you look at a portfolio and you paid $20 million and ultimately you collect $35 million, and your cost was $5 million to do that. Then you made $10 million that’s where you end up, that’s really the long-term goal here.

In that you might have $1 million $2 million provision at some point but you might make that up too at a later date. So its not like a bank necessarily level yield accounting kind of put us kind of going in that direction but it still looking at it purchase-by-purchase. Our portfolios remain very good.

Barry McCarver – Stevens Inc.

On expanse line item I was looking big line item off the fee data processing, property protection and what not. Is that pretty dramatically, in 4Q can you break that down a little bit more for us?

Jim W. Moore

Year-to-year number obviously is up about $6 million. We had a $1.2 million of operating expanses related to the ABL Crestone platforms. We had an increase of $2.2 million in asset level expanses related to the increase in wholly owned portfolios.

As we increased our wholly-owned balance sheet growth we have portfolios that have asset level expanses that we have to pay to either foreclose or just legal fees, etc., to manage and collect those deals. We have property tax related to those assets and that’s the type of expense that we are talking about there. Then we have $2.3 million, all investigation expense is in that line also.

Barry McCarver – Stevens Inc.

The 4Q number that was $4.249 million, how much of that is recurring and how much of that is sort of these foreclosures on legal fees that’s going to vary quarter to quarter.

Jim W. Moore

I don’t know that it’s that predictable. we have about $800,000 in asset level expenses in that number every quarter. That’s was pretty high. We actually had couple hundred thousand dollars a month in property taxes that we are paying on foreclosed real estate. Foreclosures did go up and when you get our 10-K you will notice that our real estate owned on a wholly owned basis basically went from about $5 million to $15 million.

Some of that is a management philosophy where we have now we got the idea that we want to try to go ahead and get those assets in here. And we feel like we can better manage them than not taking title to them. So in the fourth quarter, we did have some substantial property taxes. We try to accrue for that but as foreclosures goes up we are not able to do that or anticipate that. That’s driving a good bit of that increase.

James T. Sartain

Revenues have gone up likewise on the wholly owned portfolios too. So expenses have gone up on the revenues because we are buying wholly owned.. You still have those expenses, you can put them in a partnership where your 50-50 just doesn’t consolidate.


I would like to turn the call back over to Jim Sartain for closing remarks.

James T. Sartain

Just in closing, as I said earlier certainly we’re disappointed in the fourth quarter. We’re disappointed in the year of ’07. We had some obstacles to overcome during the year. We overcome those. We do have honestly a market that’s could work in the credit cycle where that’s turned down substantially.

We are affected by the liquidity issues in the market where there’s not lenders in the market as well as the real estate valuation. I might add that we really have a very, very small exposure to the residential market, probably less than $3 million. We do have one portfolio of residential assets that’s probably aged about 11 years now, performing residential loans that we are in of those securitization of our own FirstCity capital deals that we now own. The assets themselves are all performing loans with good evaluations,

So that’s really the biggest extent of our exposure. We may pick up a residential assets here and there that is pledged as additional collateral on a commercial loan but heretofore we have not really taken a lot of residential exposure. We would like to do that obviously in our market and our plan to go forward in buying at severe discounts some of this product that’s going to be in the market and more of it to come in the market in the residential space.

But as I said we are looking forward the future. We are optimistic about the future. We have the liquidity on our balance sheet, our abilities. And we have the JV capacity too to put deals together with other money players to do the deals that we are going to see in the market.

We have the people. We have the franchise to take advantage of it. We believe the market’s coming to us. The credit crunches, as we call it the liquidity crunch, this is real. I don’t believe anybody would dispute that. We see it going forward and even in Europe. We see it some in our Latin America markets.

As the US economy continues to slow down and as the credit crunch liquidity crunch hits here. We see it’s somewhat happening in Europe and we see some opportunities arising there too as well as Latin America. As I said earlier, these are the times and we are excited about the future.

And we’re going to continue to build the company. We going build it with a discipline and we believe this is our time and we are looking forward to it. With that I will conclude and wish you all a good day and call in with any questions. Thank you.

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